Mindset U: Coaching Secrets
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The gang tackles the topic of Coaching.
Jay is helping out a young fighter at the gym, so he's picking the guy's brains about their views and philosophies on their coaching methods.
Mo asks Jay many questions about coaching and the steps Jay is taking to help understand his protégé better.
Rances offers great insight into how to ask clients the right questions to help them understand the training better.
Mo hits Jay with some honest feedback from their experience training together two years ago.
Jay finally finds his funny towards the end of the pod.
The gang hugs and gingerly touches tips to end the episode.
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Timestamps
0:00 - Intro
1:20 - How does coaching experience apply to the current challenges
3:52 - Discovery (digging for the problem )
7:27 - How Moises's experiences can help Jay
9:51 - Data collection (a good coach find the data)
15:33 - Understand your motive
20:58 - Coaching emotions
32:12 - Collaborative solutions and training awareness
37:09 - Summary
39:47 - Tell us your thoughts https://forms.gle/aqLERqWV4H1BqDB79
Transcript
00:00:00:11 - 00:00:34:02
Jason
Everybody. Welcome to another episode of Mindset U This episode 70 Jason Moreno, a.k.a. Punchline Jay. We got Moises Santos a.k.a. Moody Mo and we got Rances, a.k.a. Mr. Roboto. Today's episode, we're talking about coaching because you guys are coaches and I wouldn't necessarily call me a coach, but I am starting to train a young kid at the gym who I adore greatly and I want to pick you guys brains about how to become a better coach.
00:00:36:08 - 00:01:00:29
Jason
I feel like it's a lot. You're always learning. You're always you know, you're always trying to navigate with your clients and stuff like that. Everybody's different. You can't just do the same approach for everybody. It doesn't work like that. At least I don't believe maybe you guys feel differently. But I would just start with you, Mo. Wait. First and foremost, don't forget to, like, subscribe and find us anywhere that you can find.
00:01:00:29 - 00:01:37:28
Jason
Podcast, whether it's YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, if there's any play oh a VidaProject.com. Of course, if there's any other place that I'm not mentioning, you guys feel free to to say. But that's all the ones off the top of my head. But back to my question and it's for you, Mo Mo your coach in multiple facets, but I wanted to pick your brain about your time as a basketball coach because you had the you you coached several young men in basketball.
00:01:37:28 - 00:01:52:16
Jason
And I could see how hard that can be, especially the younger kids and stuff like that. So I just wanted to pick your brain about how you went about catering to different kids needs and stuff like that and how to make it, how to bring them together as a team.
00:01:53:25 - 00:02:12:03
Moises
I mean, that's a great question. First, I think, like what I would like to do is just to give some context to the audience is like what are you dealing with right now? And then how does my experience and Rances experience as a coach really connect to that? So that way it just makes cohesive, creates more cohesiveness and.
00:02:12:27 - 00:02:34:08
Jason
I think that's I think that's a great point of. So also to train a younger gentleman at the boxing gym. I work with him every Sunday morning. It's kind of a passion project. He always looked up to me at the gym and stuff like that. He always asked me questions with his mom, so I just pretty much said, Hey, if you're here at 7:00 on Sunday morning, I'll be here and I'll work with you.
00:02:34:23 - 00:02:53:00
Jason
So it all started with me sending him YouTube videos of different boxing techniques and stuff like that, things that I want them to work on. So it would start with like the first one I sent him was like a video of Canelo doing creative punches. So like he's a really strong kid, he doesn't realize how strong he is.
00:02:53:15 - 00:03:17:00
Jason
So I was hoping that using somebody who like Canelo, who I mean if you're a boxing fan you look up to Canelo kind of thing. But what Canelo is really good at is setting up his power kind of thing. So I had him look at this video of Canelo doing these creative punches and it's working. But at the same time he still hits really, really fucking hard and he doesn't know how to control his strength.
00:03:17:00 - 00:03:41:18
Jason
That no matter how many times, like we stop it, and like, hey, hey, hey, take a little bit off of it, take a little bit off it like let's just touch kind of thing. Like he'll touch for a second and then it's right back into the same thing. So I'm really trying to find a way to approach it where he's still getting that that work of knowing what it's like to be in a situation where he he has to get hit.
00:03:42:27 - 00:03:51:02
Jason
But at the same time that how he needs to control himself in these situations and stuff like that. So that's where I'm at right now.
00:03:52:03 - 00:04:08:14
Moises
So my first question to that is, what is the definition of control? What does that look like with this kid? Like what his out of control look like? It's just like, how do you know he's out of control?
00:04:09:00 - 00:04:30:05
Jason
I know he's out of control because regardless of how many times I'm like, Hey, this is just touching. We're just touching, right now. Like, literally just patty cake. We're just patty cake. And we do pick your shots and stuff like that. He'll do it for like 30 seconds. And then if he gets frustrated, he just resorts back to like the strong guy, his power kind of thing.
00:04:30:24 - 00:04:48:19
Jason
So it's just trying to like get him to like dial it back a little bit. But that's what I mean when I say that he's he's a little bit out of control with that just because like with me, it's not I know how to deal with it, but when it comes time to get him to work with other people, I know it's going to be a hard thing.
00:04:48:19 - 00:05:10:15
Jason
It's already been a hard thing even with people that he knows because the minute he cracks and he has a very strong right hand, that they come back looking for blood kind of thing. And and he one, I mean, not to get to like inside baseball about this kid's life. He does have an eye condition. So that's why his mom was kind of nervous about him, sparring with other people and stuff like that.
00:05:10:15 - 00:05:17:21
Jason
So she doesn't want to take them and wanted to take like a lot of abuse to their head. But at the same time.
00:05:18:15 - 00:05:42:02
Rances
Oh, can I just highlight something right now? Yeah. For the audience. What's happening here right away is if you guys notice Moises ask a few questions, right? Those questions got Jay to start thinking and exploring the subject matter from a different perspective. And that precisely is what the whole topic is. Coaching, right.
00:05:42:02 - 00:05:42:28
Moises
Thats what coaching is, yeah
00:05:43:28 - 00:06:02:21
Jason
You know so I've been trying to like really think about like different ways. So like, so after practice today I was like, hey, look, like we're going to we did like two rounds and I noticed that, like, he was a little bit on edge today, so I was like, Hey, we're going to no gloves, no gloves. We're literally going to touch.
00:06:03:10 - 00:06:24:25
Jason
We're going to touch, you know, and I kind of like calm down a little bit, but I feel like the minute that the gloves go back on, it's it's kind of like that instinct that like fight or flight instinct kicks in for him. And I'm really trying to find a way to to get on to like not resort back to to old ways.
00:06:24:25 - 00:06:33:23
Moises
So what I think is actually happening. Actually, I’ll ask another question. Okay, what questions are you asking him?
00:06:33:23 - 00:06:48:13
Jason
Well, ask him like what's going through his mind when when we're sparring and stuff like that. I was like and I always I'm like, you know, that's control. Like, you know that I'm not here to hurt you kind of thing. And I asked, Why do you think that, like, in order to be fast, you have to be powerful?
00:06:48:13 - 00:07:00:29
Jason
So I ask him like a whole bunch of different questions that like is, is, is you swinging for the fences? Is it because, like, do you feel like that's the only way you can land something on me?
00:07:01:18 - 00:07:02:16
Moises
What does he say?
00:07:03:12 - 00:07:27:08
Jason
He kind of it's he's real quiet, so it's hard to get like a good read sometimes. So sometimes he's like, no, no, no. You know, I'm just not really focused today. Or sometimes he's like, Yeah, no, I get it, I get it, I get it. Yeah. And then he'll he'll, he'll snap out of it for a second and then like the next round it's right back to the same thing.
00:07:28:15 - 00:07:53:12
Moises
So I think so first of all, I'm going like your original question asking me about my experience in coaching. Yeah, basketball and all of that. It has changed a lot from the time that I coached in New York City and one won the two city championships to two. Now my philosophy in coaching has shifted just because of.
00:07:54:03 - 00:07:54:18
Moises
All the.
00:07:54:27 - 00:08:01:24
Moises
Experience and knowledge that I've gotten working with Rances and doing what we do at Vidaproject.
00:08:01:24 - 00:08:18:15
Moises
So I can't say that whatever I did before is necessarily what I would do now. What I think is the same that has never changed is that to be a good coach you have to care.
00:08:18:27 - 00:08:19:06
Jason
Like.
00:08:19:27 - 00:08:56:03
Moises
That's the first thing. Like no matter what, there's, there's got to be care. Yeah, you have to care about the individuals growth. You have to care about the individual is understanding about their emotions and how they feel. And I think that's something that has has stayed consistent in my approach to coaching and teaching now. And Rances can speak more on this, but what we define as coaching in what we define as teaching has really shifted in the past, you know, several years.
00:08:56:03 - 00:09:24:07
Moises
So to me, teaching is the the distilling complex information into a very simple concept that somebody can understand. Coaching is the application of that very simple concept. So most people might be good at teaching. Somebody can articulate something and frame something in a way which is very easy to understand, but they may not necessarily have the skills in getting somebody to apply these things.
00:09:24:16 - 00:09:49:01
Moises
That's where coaching comes into play. Somebody can be a great coach, get people to do things, but they may not be able to explain things very well. So in order to get through to this kid or any kid for that matter, you kind of need both. You have to be it's not being great at one, I believe. I think it's been it's about being decent at both.
00:09:49:01 - 00:10:07:26
Moises
And the first thing you need is care. And then the second you need. The second thing you need is data. And the only way that you get data and information is by asking really good questions. So the reason I asked you what was his response was to understand what data of data you collected.
00:10:07:26 - 00:10:08:08
Jason
Yeah.
00:10:08:29 - 00:10:22:28
Moises
If the responses, while he doesn't really talk much, you know, he doesn't say much, then to me the work that you need to do is get better at collecting the data. What is he perceiving? What is he understanding?
00:10:23:04 - 00:10:23:10
Jason
Yeah.
00:10:23:13 - 00:10:25:06
Moises
What are the answers he's given to you?
00:10:25:18 - 00:10:25:27
Jason
Mm hmm.
00:10:26:08 - 00:10:44:11
Moises
Because that's going to give you a lot of information on your approach, your next method, your next approach on to, like, how do I get him to hold back the punches? So to me, it's like if he if he's getting nervous or frustrated, right? It's like, what does that feel like? What is that what does that do in your body?
00:10:44:18 - 00:11:04:11
Moises
Yeah, right. Like what does that make you want to do or what do you sensing? Like you feel shaky? Do you feel your heart rate going up? Like you feel like your mouth getting dry, like what is. Yeah, right. Because that allows him to get a better understanding of what he's experiencing and then you can deal with that kind of emotion in that place.
00:11:05:01 - 00:11:22:08
Jason
I think that's a that's a really good point to make. Yeah. I've been trying to to really get into like what he's thinking about and stuff like that. And it's a lot of if I ask like does it feel like like you're breathing heavy? Like, is that like, do you feel like you have like anxiety? Sometimes he's like, yeah.
00:11:22:22 - 00:11:49:28
Jason
And then be so like, explain like, what does that feel like? He's like, I breathe heavy and I just do hard. Punches are like, Oh, buddy, but like, you want to, you know, let's talk about like, what? Where does that come from kind of thing. And I don't know if he has that in him to explain that yet is if he's if he understands it himself, I guess, you know, because he's like 15 years old.
00:11:49:28 - 00:12:34:13
Rances
So if I can chime in on here and this this like concept like most. Okay, what Moises is saying with the with, you know, we call them discovery questions are facilitating questions is if it's not a it's not asking someone to do a presentation is not asking hey tell me what is it that you're going through and they're going to be able to collect their thoughts and explain to you because the reality is that inside someone's mind and brain, there's so many concepts to have been instilled through experiences that the person doesn't even understand that is different than you.
00:12:35:14 - 00:12:57:09
Rances
So they're not going to be able to get you to understand what they're seeing unless they practice that skill. And that's the teaching them as strong, that delivery of information. So to get someone to ask a question and then get someone to articulate it to yourself, to you, you're asking that person to already have that talent to articulate.
00:12:57:09 - 00:13:30:27
Rances
So with the questioning, what you want to do is literally walk them holding their hand step by step and uncovering each little thing and explaining. Because as a coach, your goal is to put on the lens. Like, if I'm coaching you Jay, my goal is to put on the lens of Jay, to see the world through Jay's eyes. All right, once I'm seeing the world through my creation of Jay’s eyes, now I can start trying things and see how you react.
00:13:31:03 - 00:13:45:09
Rances
And that's also more data where I can keep making adjustments, but it's that, you know, it's not the presentation back there is the discovery exploration idea from the coach themselves.
00:13:45:09 - 00:14:08:12
Jason
No, I think that's a really good thing. That's going to be my homework for this week, so I can really work on that next Sunday when when I see him, I think I'm going to start sending him like I think what I'm also going to do is let him know, like what my journey was like in the beginning, to let him know, you know, that we all start off at a certain place and I felt real vulnerable.
00:14:08:12 - 00:14:40:23
Jason
Like even today, like even with, like with my training today, I felt a little off today I was at the gym for like 6 hours yesterday. Like we had I was at the gym at seven. We had our meeting at ten. We finished at like what, 11? Yeah. Yesterday I stayed there till two and then I was back there at seven today and I left at like 1130 today and I did like 12 rounds today, but I felt like shit, not because like my body felt weird, just like mentally.
00:14:40:23 - 00:15:00:02
Jason
I was like, man, I really don't feel like getting a punch today kind of thing. But I did it anyway just to get like the reps in kind of thing and I think I want to start being vulnerable with him and letting him know when I feel those kind of feelings that I'm not, you know, that I'm not not that I'm perfect at all.
00:15:00:02 - 00:15:21:03
Jason
But, you know, not that this kid thinks that, you know, this guy who shows up every fucking Saturday to work with him and stuff like that, like I'm always happy to get punched in the face kind of thing. Like there are days where I feel like, Oh, I get it kind of thing and I think I want to work on being more open with him about my feelings going into it as I train for this fight coming up.
00:15:22:02 - 00:15:24:13
Jason
to let him know that's normal. Is that make any sense?
00:15:25:14 - 00:15:55:10
Moises
Yeah, I think vulnerability. Vulnerability helps. I mean, going back to to like where where I think coaches and teachers can get really good at making more impact is understanding their approach and their methodology and why they're doing that thing. So something that's really helped me out, I guess in the past year and it was one of the coaches from the education consulting company that I'm contracted by.
00:15:56:19 - 00:16:25:24
Moises
So this company, they give you a coach to become a better coach, right? So one of the one time I had a conversation with the teacher, supposed to record it, recorded it, gave it to my coach, she listens to it and then gives me feedback. And it was just, I guess like I guess the teacher got a little frustrated and, you know, I reacted or not reacted, but responded in whatever way I thought this and he asked me one question.
00:16:25:24 - 00:16:52:03
Moises
This was really great question and kind of changed my approach to coaching and was like your your next question that you asked in this difficult moment, was it to center the client or was it to center yourself? Right. And this was huge because a lot of the time when you're teaching something or coaching something and it's not going the way that you expect it to go.
00:16:52:11 - 00:17:25:25
Moises
Right. This kid is punching you, going late, late. And then he starts punching hard again. So then your next question or your next method or your next statement is to what is it to center yourself or is it to center that kid? Right. And that's really huge because if it's like you get frustrated that like this kid isn't able to understand you or move forward or get the thing that you're trying to explain is your next statement because you want to feel better about what's actually happened happening or do you want the kid to feel better about it?
00:17:26:16 - 00:17:46:12
Jason
I can answer that because it's not so much, you know, taking the hits from the kid because he's so it's it's a matter of like watching him, like visually get worked up. And then he expends all of his energy within like the first, you know, he'll go, good, good, good, good. And then it's just, you know, it's just doing everything as hard as he possibly can.
00:17:46:12 - 00:18:05:12
Jason
And then for the next, you know, for the next the last minute of the round, he's he's drooling. And, you know, I mean, so I'm trying to get him to to collect himself so that he's not he's not putting himself in danger when it comes time to working with other people.
00:18:05:20 - 00:18:11:19
Moises
So what does that mean for you as a coach when you see him get into that that state, that that outcome?
00:18:12:06 - 00:18:34:18
Jason
It makes me it it it makes it I start to feel bad for him in the sense that it's not like, oh, like, oh, like he's not doing what I'm saying. It's just like, how can I help him get over this emotional hump? Because I could see it taking a toll on him. Like I can see like his eyes get watery sometimes and I and I want to be like, Oh, who are you fighting right now?
00:18:34:18 - 00:18:54:05
Jason
Like, who in your head are you swinging at right now? You know? And it's just like I just want I just want to try and get him to control his emotions when he's in there. And I think that that it's an it's hard to say that because, you know, I don't I don't necessarily know him like that and stuff like that.
00:18:54:07 - 00:19:14:08
Jason
I could just see a young kid get visibly upset, like visibly upset, and then I could and I see what happens, like when you fight upset and stuff like that, you know, he's breathing super hard for no reason. It's like i’m like Bubby. I'm working with you. I'm letting you hit me. Like, I'm literally showing up. I'm like, Listen, go to the head, go to the body.
00:19:14:08 - 00:19:41:29
Jason
You know, change it up, throw combinations and stuff like that. And I could see him get frustrated when when he feels like he's not doing it right, or if I stop and I'm like, Hey, but let's don't use your arms, use your waist kind of thing, and I feel like I could see him get frustrated sometimes when, when we when we stop him and I and I correct him kind of thing, but I'm trying to do it super gentle.
00:19:42:13 - 00:19:54:17
Jason
I'm not doing it like you fucking idiot. Like, why aren't you doing it right? Like you're doing it wrong again? I was like, No, but come on, let's, let's do it the way that we were talking about it. Like, you remember, I was like, let's, let's work in it, like this kind of thing.
00:19:55:08 - 00:19:58:23
Moises
And what do you know about him?
00:19:58:23 - 00:20:15:16
Jason
I just know that he's he's a kid from the gym, that his mom comes in and stuff like that. And like, you know, and from what he tells me, he's a real quiet kids. And I have a lot of friends. And I try to you know, I sit there and I talk to him. He'll be at the gym from seven until like 1030.
00:20:15:16 - 00:20:42:18
Jason
And if and he'll watch me sparring and whatever. I'm not sparring. I'm sitting next to and I'm trying to explain to him the stuff that I'm feeling, the stuff that I'm that I'm trying to do, that I see. And the person I'm sparring with and stuff like that. So I try to break it down for him and I and I make it a point to always, always, always, always include him in all the sparring, even though he's not necessarily able to spar with the with the other guys kind of thing, you know.
00:20:42:18 - 00:20:58:22
Jason
So I'm trying to, to, to break to break that ice and ask him like, how school, how is your week? How is this like what, you know, that kind of stuff. He's like, it's good, it's cool, you know? So I try to ask like icebreaker questions, like trying to get him to open up a little bit.
00:20:59:10 - 00:21:22:14
Rances
So I just want to kind of highlight the, you know, Moises mentioned about like for us teaching and coaching. And when we actually have taught other people the process of teaching and coaching, we had a center where we literally put all the coaches through the training to understand these concepts. And just like the back story behind guys like Moises was a teacher himself, right?
00:21:23:10 - 00:21:59:03
Rances
And for me, when Moises came along, he helped and we helped me with a lot of the teaching component, right? So like further supporting the idea of like teaching and coaching and can kind of be completely separate in many ways. And then when you merge them together, that's when you make magic and the teaching aspect, if you think of it like Moises mentioned, is like the articulation of information being able to make something that or present something and someone can understand that.
00:21:59:03 - 00:22:21:09
Rances
A big aspect of it where how you're able to frame things for different people. Right. And that's you going back to your point earlier there with different people, they're going to understand differently, you're going to speak differently, you're going to emphasize differently, so and so forth. So understanding that about the person is like, it's important to understand who's your audience, right?
00:22:21:17 - 00:22:21:25
Jason
Yeah.
00:22:22:13 - 00:22:46:20
Rances
But all of that goes into the delivery of information. And then for me and the coaching side, it becomes a bit more awareness of the emotional side of how the person again, like I said before, how the person is perceiving things and how their emotional reactions are affecting their ability to take that information and put it into action.
00:22:47:01 - 00:23:16:16
Rances
Right. Yeah. So with with all of that in coaching, you are doing less delivering of information and more asking a question to get that model of, of the way that person sees like, okay, I have a hypothesis. If I say this to Jay, Jay will receive it this way, right? So now that's teaching, right? Then coaching, I'm going to be a little bit more like my question here.
00:23:16:16 - 00:23:35:15
Rances
I'm expecting Jay to respond this way. So I ask this question, Jay responds that way. Okay, my assumption was a correct or I have a full on assumption like, oh, like you were mentioning school, this is tough and so on, so forth. Then I lead forward straight up. Like this is the assumption that I have and so on, so forth.
00:23:36:01 - 00:23:58:11
Rances
And then have the person sorry, have the person get the option to to be like, yes, you're right or no, that's not the case at all. Either way, that's the information that's helping you further kind of understand their perception because now when you have this, you have this model of the person in your mind that you're able to kind of run practices through.
00:23:58:18 - 00:24:22:20
Rances
Whereas like, Oh, I have this model of Jay in my head and when I talk to Jay, he's going to respond this way to this and so on, so forth. Now I can kind of run simulations of the different formats to get Jay to work towards something which that something has had has to be a thing. That, and this is for me, from the moral standpoint of coaching has to be a thing.
00:24:22:20 - 00:24:33:09
Rances
That is what you want, right? So now in order for me to understand what you want, I need to understand you very well and need to understand what you're trying to achieve.
00:24:33:09 - 00:24:33:19
Jason
Mm hmm.
00:24:34:05 - 00:24:52:21
Rances
And then with all of that, now I'm able to frame the way I'm teaching. I'm able to frame the way I'm coaching, and then we're working towards the thing together. And also when we're deviating from that past path, I'm able to say, Hey, we're off the path here. What's going on? Because we both agreed this is where we were trying to get to right?
00:24:52:21 - 00:24:54:15
Rances
And now we're like, oh, yeah.
00:24:54:24 - 00:25:19:24
Jason
Let's adjust know that's I think that's that's really helpful. I will say this so like when it comes to like doing like pad work and stuff like that, like hitting the heavy bag, he understands everything. Like all this stuff that we go through, he gets it there. It's just when it comes time to get in the ring and apply it when somebody else is trying to hit them, that sometimes it just goes out the window kind of thing.
00:25:19:24 - 00:25:39:08
Jason
So it's just like one of those, like trying to figure out like one. We all know fighting is hard, it's not easy. You know, there's a lot that goes into it. You know, a lot of people don't like conflict and stuff like that. So like I get that, that part, but it's just like trying to find that gap of like trying to get how he connects how it connects so well.
00:25:39:19 - 00:25:43:15
Jason
We're outside that rig to get it to connect in there.
00:25:43:22 - 00:26:03:10
Rances
So going back to that point of like coaching becomes a more emotional part, right? And you know, with coaching there's a lot more training that happens right? Where you can you can understand the concept and so on, so forth. And now you put it into practice and everything goes out the window, throw your hands up in the air and run right, because emotions take over.
00:26:03:10 - 00:26:26:03
Rances
So in coaching you understand emotions in that way. So then when the emotions is a challenge, like for example, okay, he can behave under these stress levels right now. Once these stress levels exceed this, that means that his ability to manage his self, his emotional self. Is beyond.
00:26:26:06 - 00:26:43:02
Rances
Is underneath what is necessary to control in this moment, all right. So when I get punched in the face, you know, Jay tells me when I get punched in the face, I need to lift my right arm to block. Okay. Got it. Then everyone has a plan to. They got punched in the face.
00:26:43:16 - 00:26:43:20
Jason
Yeah.
00:26:44:04 - 00:27:04:20
Moises
I will. I will say this. Going off with rants is kind of kind of stopped before the incident. He did talk about the emotion in the application. And and Jay, do you mind if I give you some direct feedback based on the time that that you had coached me? You remember when we were in the center? You had trained me one time.
00:27:05:02 - 00:27:06:15
Moises
You were high as hell when you came in.
00:27:06:15 - 00:27:09:11
Jason
But of course. So it's kind of.
00:27:09:21 - 00:27:11:12
Jason
First of all, not stone when I go there in.
00:27:11:12 - 00:27:13:03
Jason
The morning. No.
00:27:13:21 - 00:27:30:17
Moises
I know that this was skewed, but one thing I did remember, and as well, I spoke to answers about this. When we're talking about coaching, I'm like, Jay, you talk too much. Jay talks too much when when you're coaching. So when you're coaching, right, it's about training, right?
00:27:31:03 - 00:27:32:29
Moises
It for me.
00:27:32:29 - 00:28:01:05
Moises
A teacher that talks too much or a coach that talks too much is you already losing the person automatically in coaching? It's really just about like, All right, we're doing this. Hey, here. One, two, one, two. Right, change this. Keep going. Right. The second he gets frustrated is like, relax again, go like it's non and it's literally training the person's emotions while they're doing something.
00:28:02:18 - 00:28:13:16
Moises
The moment that someone stops and tries to give a breakdown of something that you're trying to get someone to apply, you can lose the person very easily.
00:28:14:09 - 00:28:14:23
Jason
Fair enough.
00:28:15:06 - 00:28:48:24
Moises
Right. And the only time that I believe that you go and you break something down is if the person is completely off like completely fucking left field and is resistant towards your coaching or whatever. Interrupt the pattern. Yeah, you have to interrupt the pattern. So that's the only time. And when teaching my belief is if if you can't explain something in less than 5 minutes, then you do not know that concept.
00:28:49:08 - 00:28:58:07
Moises
You, you can't because when I see a teacher in the is trying to explain a methodology in the front of the classroom and this person is trying to teach a lesson and it takes them.
00:28:58:07 - 00:29:25:09
Moises
30 Minutes to explain something to a class. That means this person is either trying to control the class by consuming all of the time and being in front of the classroom. Right. Meaning that the moment that they let the class go to work, all hell breaks loose. So the way to control that is to stay in front of the class and talk, or they have no idea what they're saying.
00:29:25:09 - 00:29:38:29
Moises
So to me, one of the things that I experienced with you, I think that you explain things well, but I think that you overexplain at least in that one very small sample size of your coaching at a very young almost two years ago. So yeah.
00:29:38:29 - 00:29:39:14
Jason
That was like in the early stage.
00:29:39:16 - 00:29:41:00
Jason
I know you’ve changed a lot
00:29:41:12 - 00:29:42:24
Jason
But you know the fuck I Was doing.
00:29:42:24 - 00:29:44:04
Moises
You and you were High.
00:29:44:12 - 00:29:52:09
Jason
So it's hard. It's hard training or friend. Yeah. Or showing a friend how to do something when I'm hitting them.
00:29:52:27 - 00:30:15:23
Moises
Yeah. And I mean it's also that like, you know, it's also a friend, right? The dynamics of the relationship. All right. You could also you were high. You you were first the first time like really coaching coach in a coach. Right. Like those all those variables play a role, of course. But I would say, just like if it's any direct feedback from what I can remember is like less is more.
00:30:16:09 - 00:30:28:25
Jason
I try to keep the the stuff simple. It's literally like throw a 1,2 add a hook to it, turn your shoulders kind of thing. It's a lot of that. The talking comes afterwards.
00:30:29:12 - 00:30:36:03
Moises
Yeah, I would say talk less, ask more questions, get the get as much as possible. That's that's the goal.
00:30:36:03 - 00:30:41:16
Jason
And I think that's a great thing that I'm going to definitely work on coming up this Sunday.
00:30:42:08 - 00:31:14:03
Rances
Yeah. And then when it goes into the questions side, there's like we, we created an entire system on on like the questionings and the way you frame the questions. So for example, a lot of times the why questions create kind of defensiveness. All right. So steering away from why question and more. So what you know, what about the last punch that you received to the face made you swing with that left hook?
00:31:14:18 - 00:31:14:24
Jason
Yeah.
00:31:15:17 - 00:31:18:09
Rances
Because now you're more curious as to what about it?
00:31:18:22 - 00:31:19:22
Jason
What now?
00:31:19:23 - 00:31:29:11
Rances
And I guess, I don't know. I got scared. It creates more risks. Why did you throw that left hook? Yeah, well, because I'm supposed to like it feels.
00:31:29:11 - 00:31:30:27
Jason
Accusatory when you do the why.
00:31:31:08 - 00:31:34:04
Moises
And It almost feels rhetorical, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:35:14 - 00:31:49:11
Jason
No, I get that. No, that's definitely, definitely good feedback. I'm definitely going to apply going forward. Sorry. My energy is fucking low. I'm trying to do everything hurts. My whole body hurts today. like everything.
00:31:49:16 - 00:31:52:27
Rances
No Punchlines, huh?
00:31:52:27 - 00:31:53:13
Moises
No punchline.
00:31:53:13 - 00:31:53:20
Jason
Oh.
00:31:54:03 - 00:31:57:04
Jason
No. The punch lines are very, very low
00:31:57:16 - 00:31:59:10
Moises
You said you gave them all out of the ring.
00:32:00:04 - 00:32:11:27
Jason
Oh, I literally, you know, it is I spent the past few days I worked out for 10 hours in the past two days and it's been a lot of fucking boxing. Yeah.
00:32:11:27 - 00:32:41:20
Rances
So just to give you a little bit more of, of that, because like all this stuff that most kind of diving into when he was like asking you questions, it's also to understand that you're looking for the problems together with the client, whoever you're coaching, you're looking for the problem with them. Right. And what I mean by that is that when you think you found the problem, you're going to want to solve the problem.
00:32:41:20 - 00:33:06:14
Rances
Right? The key factor is you're doing that with them. So when they go, oh, I know what's happening this right now, you're kind of guiding them to solve their own problems. And that, in fact, is what coaching is, is not giving the answers to. Hey. So another thing that I can give you directly from what you're saying is like, okay, the kid says he understands and so on, so forth.
00:33:06:14 - 00:33:31:03
Rances
And then once pressure reaches a certain point, he starts responding with his previous behaviors. And so then maybe is simply training that response, right? So, you know, you you grab a noodle and you're smacking him on the side of the head and you're like, keep punching at 60%. Bang, bang, bang, keep smacking them, smack them a little harder, up, down, a little harder.
00:33:31:06 - 00:33:46:02
Rances
You're not staying at 60, right? So now you start bringing awareness to that micro little adjustment. And then by bringing awareness, you're shining light. And for him to again, for him to become aware of the problems like, Oh, there, I increase too much. I see what it feels like.
00:33:46:12 - 00:33:46:19
Jason
Yeah.
00:33:46:19 - 00:33:49:14
Rances
And now you're holding up that mirror for him in that way. Yeah.
00:33:49:15 - 00:34:12:03
Moises
I think when it comes to kids toys, it's, it's really more about getting them to do stuff. And then, I mean, based off what you said, just like really make him feel uncomfortable with the questions. Like, not in the sense like asking weird, weird questions, but just like pushing him to actually give answers, right? Where he, he can't give those one word answers.
00:34:12:03 - 00:34:16:21
Moises
It's like he has to kind of explain something. And when he does explain it is like.
00:34:16:28 - 00:34:17:09
Moises
I think.
00:34:17:18 - 00:34:41:12
Moises
If he if it's like, right. What did you see there? What it looks like, like Rances said, like what is the the the key question or how I think really get somebody to explain something like how would you do this? How would you go about doing this? How would you throw this right and get in their insight into how they see things and not necessarily giving like a wrong or right answer.
00:34:41:13 - 00:34:48:25
Moises
It's more like, okay, all right, let's work with that, see what happens, and then just punch him in the face and be like, did that work? You know, they didn't know.
00:34:49:07 - 00:34:49:23
Jason
Great.
00:34:50:01 - 00:34:50:21
Rances
Yeah. All right.
00:34:50:21 - 00:34:54:15
Moises
So what do you think about that? No.
00:34:54:15 - 00:35:12:27
Jason
Is it a few of those situations where I'm like, what? I was like, is there a reason why you keep your head so low when you were punching range? He's like, Oh, because I think I could throw faster from here. And then I just throw a punch at him. Like, Was it faster? He goes, No. Like I was doing that.
00:35:13:00 - 00:35:20:26
Moises
But that's that to me. That's great effect coaching for me. Like, I can understand what he says. I feel like when my hands are lower, I can throw faster.
00:35:21:03 - 00:35:21:14
Jason
Yeah.
00:35:21:27 - 00:35:24:02
Moises
It's, it's it's easier for you.
00:35:24:02 - 00:35:45:26
Jason
It makes sense when you're on a heavy bag until somebody swinging at you, you zig when you sort of zagged and then you get caught with something. And then I feel bad. Because I didn't mean to hit the kid straight in the fucking nose. He's bleeding. Now, that's another thing where it's like in a sport where where it's like you don't want to hurt somebody, but you still have to kind of hurt them.
00:35:46:09 - 00:35:46:19
Moises
Mm hmm.
00:35:47:12 - 00:36:01:19
Jason
Um, I think I feel terrible. Like he gets nosebleeds really easily. I could look at him the wrong way, and sometimes his nosebleeds. So for, like, the first two weeks, I was like, I am so sorry. I am so sorry. I am so sorry. This was like, he bleeds all the time. Don't worry about it.
00:36:01:19 - 00:36:04:00
Jason
I'm like, Oh, I think I'd oh, I.
00:36:04:01 - 00:36:08:12
Jason
Think I don't want to be the reason why a 50 year old has a fucking nosebleed on a Sunday morning. Right.
00:36:08:24 - 00:36:15:18
Moises
What I Will say to you, though, is you probably get coaching insurance just to cover your ass.
00:36:15:27 - 00:36:16:13
Jason
Yeah, right.
00:36:16:19 - 00:36:24:00
Moises
And I would also make a separate entity so that it's your coach and you signed a waiver. Does he have a waiver.
00:36:24:17 - 00:36:25:25
Jason
When he signs a waiver to the gym?
00:36:26:07 - 00:36:27:17
Moises
And are you a coach at the gym?
00:36:28:11 - 00:36:34:22
Jason
No, but I'm not technically I'm not technically his coach. I just really just took on the role of teaching manager.
00:36:35:08 - 00:36:36:07
Jason
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:36:09 - 00:36:50:03
Jason
It's more so from that aspect where she's not paying me anything. Okay? Yeah, no. Like, there's no money involved. Like, you know, she's always like, oh, like, what can I bring you? And I'm like, Mama, if you could bring me, like, a liter water, that's all I need kind of thing.
00:36:50:13 - 00:36:51:03
Moises
All right, cool.
00:36:51:03 - 00:37:04:17
Jason
Yeah, I don't. I don't want any money for it. I just really enjoy the fact that he loves that he loves boxing, and this is like his little escape for him. Got it? I don't think so. Like That it's. It's my passion project with him kind of thing.
00:37:04:28 - 00:37:05:21
Moises
Got it? Yeah.
00:37:06:06 - 00:37:08:03
Jason
Yeah, yeah. It's just one of those things.
00:37:09:00 - 00:37:43:09
Rances
Yeah. So just to summarize, like where we talked about the first of all, coaching and teaching are kind of two separate entities understanding the individual that or your audience as a whole really is going to impact the way you teach, the way you bring information, the storytelling. All of that stuff is directed to the, the, the audience themselves, understanding the, the individual's emotional and their, their perception of the world, their mental model of the world.
00:37:43:20 - 00:38:10:26
Rances
That's where coaching helps guide how you react, right? So how you apply that information. So how do you build yourself emotionally to react with that information? So when you combine those two things, you're able to create a understanding for yourself of the person and how they receive, and you're able to guide them by giving them experiences and testing those theories out.
00:38:11:16 - 00:38:22:11
Rances
And with that, you're working together again to help them uncover their their answers. You're more so pointing them in the right direction as opposed to telling them where they need to be.
00:38:22:23 - 00:38:45:19
Jason
Yeah, you know, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I've been rewatching Ted Lasso from the beginning now know I've been like writing little notes down, like believe in all these other like little things that that I love from like the different coaches on the show and stuff like that because I know it's fake and all, but you still learn a few valuable lessons from it as well.
00:38:46:05 - 00:38:48:27
Rances
And the show is well-researched and well-researched.
00:38:48:28 - 00:38:49:20
Jason
Yeah, yeah, right.
00:38:50:06 - 00:38:50:18
Jason
Yeah.
00:38:51:04 - 00:39:05:17
Moises
That whole belief thing, my dad told me that from right when I started playing ball five years old, it's like first thing, no matter what, you always have to believe. Yeah, I was like, Fuck. When Ted Lasso came out to believe, I was like, Damn.
00:39:06:22 - 00:39:10:06
Jason
That's the most important thing you've ever sounded. Say, Ted Lasso, we good?
00:39:10:16 - 00:39:11:27
Moises
Ted Lasso?
00:39:11:27 - 00:39:23:15
Jason
You like Ted Lasso? Yeah. Ted Lasso.
00:39:23:15 - 00:39:24:17
Moises
Right. That was pretty funny That it
00:39:24:17 - 00:39:34:07
Jason
I’m getting my energy back. Slowly coming back. Good. I still got some fight in me coach.
00:39:34:07 - 00:39:36:22
Moises
I was afraid. this podcast was going to be boring.
00:39:37:23 - 00:39:39:03
Moises
Is Jay coming out with any punchlines.
00:39:39:13 - 00:40:07:10
Jason
No, You just got to wait till the end. Guys. I'm sorry. All right, so on that note, once again, this is Mindset U you can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, VidaProject.com. Oh, one last question. Basketball related. Do you guys call it suicides or do you have to call it something else?
00:40:08:15 - 00:40:10:09
Moises
I don’t think...
00:40:10:09 - 00:40:19:00
Jason
That's a great question. It's it's like you can't call, you know, sitting Indian style anymore. It's criss cross applesauce because it's social. It's racially insensitive, apparently too.
00:40:19:00 - 00:40:24:17
Rances
I don't think the the the censorship has made it to.
00:40:24:17 - 00:40:25:02
Moises
The basketball.
00:40:25:02 - 00:40:25:19
Rances
Courts.
00:40:25:26 - 00:40:26:14
Jason
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:26:27 - 00:40:29:04
Moises
don't think the basketball world all it cares too much man.
00:40:29:12 - 00:40:29:21
Jason
Yeah.
00:40:30:11 - 00:40:31:27
Moises
Yeah. I like it.
00:40:31:27 - 00:40:36:02
Jason
One basketball player ends it all.
00:40:36:02 - 00:40:39:07
Moises
I can't believe you can't just say words. Now this is retarded.
00:40:40:07 - 00:40:41:21
Jason
We're starting to sound like our parents.
00:40:45:02 - 00:40:48:22
Jason
And say that word anymore. What do you mean?