Is It Possible to Separate Race & Identity?
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This is an extension of the personal development episode, where we dive more into our identities.
Mo starts off with a story about having to play ball with the black kids to get better and how it ties into his struggle with being accepted as a minority because he is “white-passing”.
Jay talks about not fitting in because of his love for “white stuff” growing up and not being fluent in Spanish.
Rances talks about being a “mutt” and what it was like growing up in a Dominican family that has a lot of different ethnic flavors.
We also talk about dealing with failure and how it helps build you to be a tougher better person And a few other fun things.
Unfortunately, our 8 mins convo on “butt stuff and anal beads” didn’t make the cut.
Timestamps
00:00- intro
03:35- Life as a "White Passing" Minority
08:25- Graham Cracker's Struggle to fit in
12:20- Acceptance of "blackness" in Dominican Culture
17:25- Self-acceptance & embracing your inner "Diplomat"
22:25- Recognizing triggers for self-growth
25:30- Acceptance of failure as a positive
31:00- Physiology behind anger
35:35 - Opportunities to become aware
41:00 - Holding the line in a relationship
42:45 - Final Thoughts
Transcript
00;00;00;04 - 00;00;17;18
Jason
There's no rules on this bitch Okay. So we're going to talk about whatever you want, whatever we want, because we're going to spin it and let you all know what we're going to talk about for 15 minutes. I'm going to give you rapid fire stuff there. They're the coaches on the everyday guy. I'm going to challenge them because who the fuck are they to tell me what to do?
00;00;17;25 - 00;00;30;27
Jason
They don't know me. They do know me. Know me for a really long time. But that's not the point. The point is we're here to give you guys a fun podcast and hopefully you learn some chill on the way to that.
00;00;31;03 - 00;00;47;19
Moises
That's what I kind of like. Understanding the story was like, Oh, he's apologizing for the expectations that he places on himself, which then makes it confusing because I was like, Oh, is he dealing with the stereotype or biases of like being angry black man.
00;00;48;17 - 00;00;50;17
Jason
it’s the stereotype that Rances has of himself.
00;00;50;21 - 00;00;55;07
Moises
But I was like, Yo, fuck that man. Like, being an angry black man is cool. Like, I want to be an angry black man.
00;00;55;15 - 00;00;59;03
Moises
Yes, I'm dead serious.
00;00;59;03 - 00;01;14;06
Moises
Like, for like when I was younger because my father always told me he was like, you know, you got to play with the brothers, like to be good at basketball. Like you're not going to get good playing with white boys. Is I in these little chinitos You're not going to get good playing with them either. And I was like, So I can play with black guys.
00;01;14;06 - 00;01;17;21
Moises
Yeah. And I've always wanted to be like when I was younger, I was like, I wanted to be black.
00;01;18;02 - 00;01;30;22
Jason
Black always. But like in your instance, right? It must be wild to be a minority and nobody believes you like. No, that's a wild, like, dual concept to have to deal with because I.
00;01;30;22 - 00;01;38;15
Moises
Mean, the terminology for that now is in the you're the one that told me that. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a white person that's not white.
00;01;38;20 - 00;01;39;02
Jason
Yeah.
00;01;39;02 - 00;01;39;28
Rances
White passing.
00;01;39;28 - 00;02;13;02
Moises
White passing. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. Like to me when I heard your story is like, there's nothing wrong with with that, I was like, So what is he apologizing for? But that makes a lot more sense. He's like, these expectations of like, Oh, I'm this person and I'm, I have these skills and the only one at this table with these skills, maybe Paola right, can be in your mind, in your world with these skills to be able to approach a difficult situation with curiosity and not anger.
00;02;13;02 - 00;02;19;21
Moises
That makes sense of a lot of sense to me.
00;02;19;21 - 00;02;22;17
Jason
Dead silence. All right. No, no, no. It's like he's competing.
00;02;22;17 - 00;02;24;20
Moises
He's he's recalibrating.
00;02;26;01 - 00;02;44;14
Rances
No because I like what you said about Mo and the whole white passing thing. And I've been thinking on that route of, like you were saying before, like you wanted to be black growing up, right? And then
00;02;44;14 - 00;02;47;06
Jason
you are black. I hate to break it to you. You're just albino.
00;02;47;16 - 00;03;14;21
Rances
It's just white passing But like, because that's that's like also a change of, like you trying to me that represents you trying to find your identity of where do I fit in, you know, so and then like, like Jay said when you were you are a minority, but no one believes you because it reminds me of that time we went to that thing where was you know...?
00;03;14;29 - 00;03;23;28
Moises
oh the the workshop in in New York is like a Google for coaches workshop, but it was for African Americans. Yeah, it's like minorities.
00;03;23;28 - 00;03;25;22
Jason
Oh, so when they saw you, they were like, I was the.
00;03;25;22 - 00;03;27;09
Moises
Only person in the room.
00;03;27;12 - 00;03;35;22
Rances
The speaker spoke about like like I mean, like we're all whatever they said something to you about specifically like.
00;03;35;22 - 00;03;36;04
Moises
How being.
00;03;36;04 - 00;03;55;22
Rances
White in like we got one white guys supporting or whatever and he was like, I'm, I'm Puerto Rican. And then I go, Oh, really? So like, to me that, that, that identity crisis, if you are like I'm curious to learn about that.
00;03;56;11 - 00;04;16;17
Moises
Well, I mean, it started from when I was young, like playing basketball. My I remember like 11 or 12 years old. Like I was pretty good at that age because my dad was always training me. So they put me my dad put me in a tournament in Hackensack. And I was the last kid to be picked because I was the only white kid in that group.
00;04;16;27 - 00;04;43;05
Moises
They picked a girl, a black girl over me, which is not to say that she wasn't good, she was really good, but she was one of the last ones. It was me and her and she was a really good player and it I was the MVP of the entire tournament at the end, but I was chosen because I was white and my dad's like told me when I was 11, 12 years old, he's like, you got picked because you were last, because you were white in a room full of African-American kids.
00;04;44;08 - 00;05;14;13
Moises
So that was a difficult experience. And then when I would go play a few in the Bronx and like all of my experience of like identity with skin color had to came from playing basketball and that was a big thing. But then as I started to go into the workforce, like it started to change because me being white actually got me more opportunities than the African-American counterparts, which then start made me realize I was like, Oh shit.
00;05;15;02 - 00;05;16;10
Moises
I Yeah, it's not, it's.
00;05;16;28 - 00;05;20;27
Moises
It's not as like a hard line. Like, you see, it's really great.
00;05;20;28 - 00;05;25;04
Jason
I must be like, interesting, like as a minority to experience like white guilt.
00;05;25;04 - 00;05;26;00
Moises
I do, you know.
00;05;26;11 - 00;05;32;19
Jason
Like, it's like, I'm sorry. I'm fucking light skinned, bro. Like, like you have no choice over it, you know?
00;05;33;00 - 00;05;58;17
Moises
Yeah. Like, so, I mean, a lot of the work that we do are with, you know, African-Americans. A lot of my work is that. So sometimes I feel self-conscious when I go into a room full of, you know, brown people. And I'm automatically trying to fight off the perceptions that I believe are being had about me, which is like, here's this white man in a room with all African-Americans.
00;05;58;17 - 00;06;28;18
Moises
Like it happened to me with one of our accounts, city sports, where we had a meeting and they were talking to this organization. And it's all African-American men, and I'm the only white man. And I felt self-conscious of like, yo, like, I don't want to be looked at as one the one that makes decisions, too. I don't want to be looked at as the one that has power in this situation because they had brought like the one of the guys had brought me in for like consulting just to kind of give the ideas of like how to run numbers and all these things.
00;06;29;04 - 00;06;51;18
Moises
And here they are. And I'm the only white man in that room and that made me feel really self-conscious. And like, sometimes I think it impacts my behavior and my approach to coaching and consulting and all of those things. So it is a difficult line when I go there and then in a white room it's the same thing because I don't feel white either.
00;06;51;19 - 00;06;51;29
Jason
Yeah.
00;06;52;08 - 00;07;08;05
Moises
So I when I in a room with actual white people, I also feel self-conscious because I'm like, I don't feel as equal like either because I'm like, they know that my name is Moisés Santos and that I'm not weight. So it is interesting.
00;07;08;07 - 00;07;17;04
Rances
So in like in a room full of black men, are you like, guys? Guys, I'm Puerto Rican. I just want to put it out there. Is that.
00;07;17;04 - 00;07;49;04
Moises
No, no, I'm not like expressing. I mean, I actually don't know how I the perception that I put out, to be honest. But I think that I, I'm trying I'm self-conscious of not making them feel that I'm not a part of them. Like I want to make them feel that I am a part of them. So my behavior is to make me feel accepted into the to the group and that I understand what they may possibly be going through.
00;07;49;18 - 00;08;01;09
Moises
Right. And the conversations and what they're trying to achieve in their mission. So I'm trying to empathize as much as possible and express that empathy from my perspective. But sometimes I feel that it's not necessarily accepted because I'm a white man.
00;08;01;21 - 00;08;12;00
Rances
Mm hmm. Is that where you. Because I. I'm just I'm thinking back in a in a kind of remember, you always bring it up. Yeah, I grew up in Teaneck.
00;08;12;21 - 00;08;17;13
Moises
Yeah, that. That was something I was actually proud of because it made me more of a minority.
00;08;17;23 - 00;08;19;11
Rances
Mm hmm.
00;08;20;09 - 00;08;33;08
Jason
Yeah, I know, I know. For me, it was always weird because, like, the brown tattoos and then I don't speak a word of Spanish. I love rock music.
00;08;33;08 - 00;08;34;29
Rances
Yeah. You've been having identity issues.
00;08;34;29 - 00;08;50;08
Jason
Oh, I've been having identity issues since I was fucking born, you know? So it's one of those things I was like, you know, once like a Spanish man, I was like, Oh, he doesn't speak Spanish. You're not really Spanish. And then if I go around white kids, I don't look like them. So I automatically get to be like, Oh, you're Spanish.
00;08;50;08 - 00;09;19;00
Jason
I was like, Tell that to them. Like, Can you let them know? Because they don't they don't trust they don't believe that, you know, and it was just one of those things that, you know, I'll never forget it. Hector labeled me this and it I love it to this day. He always called me a graham cracker. And I always thought at first, like, that's so fucked up, you know, I was like, but I was, I mean, I, I'm just me.
00;09;19;00 - 00;09;37;12
Jason
At the end of the day, I grew up with, with two very strong Puerto Rican parents, and my dad liked Harley-Davidsons and rock music and that's what I grew up on. He loved salsa music. He loved everything else. But like what really spoke to me was rock music as a kid, I just I just liked it. I don't know what it was.
00;09;37;20 - 00;09;59;20
Jason
I just gravitated towards it. And it was always hard for me because even like being with the younger ones, all my cousins, like, Oh, white boy, you wife, where you white boy, oh, you know where you ain't take t teacher like, oh, you fucking white boy. It's like so I remember being younger and like overcompensating and wearing like baggy South Pole jeans, and I was like, There's not a hood bone in me.
00;09;59;20 - 00;10;01;13
Jason
I'm fucking singing in the sink in the house.
00;10;01;20 - 00;10;03;13
Jason
Like, you.
00;10;03;13 - 00;10;08;06
Jason
Know, you're playing with my action figures. They're like 14 years old, so, like, leave me alone.
00;10;08;06 - 00;10;40;01
Moises
And so it's interesting that you said that because, like, we're both Puerto Ricans. Yeah. And I think this is something that Puerto Ricans do struggle with. It is part of our like, culture and how we got here. So and these are just kind of like thought processes of of how I assume other Puerto Ricans may feel, especially like millennial, Puerto Rican, just like our parents came from the island, which is a U.S. territory.
00;10;40;12 - 00;11;05;19
Moises
So we have cultures from the American kind of culture, and then we have our Puerto Rican culture. And then when we migrated here, a lot of Puerto Ricans either moved to like New York City. Right. And then their kids grew up here, which is us. So in order to kind of assimilate with the American culture, we kind of lost a lot of the Latino culture.
00;11;05;20 - 00;11;05;28
Jason
Yeah.
00;11;06;26 - 00;11;33;04
Moises
But not really, because our parents would probably speak to us in Spanish at home. And then you'd hear salsa music. You still eat the food like we still had that. But to assimilate to the other people around us, language was a big part of that. So like, like you, I mean, I think maybe I know or understand a little bit more Spanish, way more than you do, because my parents speak to me in Spanish, but I don't I'm not fluent in the language.
00;11;34;21 - 00;11;55;08
Moises
So there is a part of me that even with Latino culture is like when I step into a room with Dominicans, I am very self-conscious of language. And when somebody starts speaking Spanish, it makes me nervous because I'm like, I'm white, but then they know I'm, Oh, you're not white. So then you oh, you're Latino. Oh, you speak Spanish.
00;11;55;16 - 00;12;08;21
Moises
Okay, speak Spanish. And I'm like, I'm not Latino know because I can't speak Spanish. Like, not as fluent as you can. I can understand what you say. So then it's like whichever room I go into, I don't feel completely a part of.
00;12;08;21 - 00;12;11;15
Jason
Yeah, it's like you can't they have no. Just in like.
00;12;11;15 - 00;12;12;02
Moises
Yeah.
00;12;12;04 - 00;12;13;03
Jason
Second guess yourself.
00;12;13;03 - 00;12;16;08
Moises
It's crazy. Like I'm constantly second guessing myself when I'm in the room.
00;12;16;28 - 00;12;43;16
Rances
You know, I, you guys just kind of talking about that. It's like, why isn't that a thing for me in that sense? So I was like kind of backtracking because like, so when I was younger, I always had Afro or braids, right? So and everyone assumed I was black. I never had any issue with that and grew up in Washington Heights where I was full of Hispanics and Dominican specifically.
00;12;45;01 - 00;13;18;20
Rances
But then I was like and then, you know, moved to Jersey. Then kind of the the environment changed. It was like that was the first time ever I was around a community that didn't speak Spanish predominately, and that was weird, but I was thinking about it like so my mom had, I don't know if you guys have this similar memory of like the Encyclopedia Britannica that my mom had this full collection, right?
00;13;18;20 - 00;13;44;23
Rances
That she bought it from my gym teacher. And in Washington Heights. And we had these books and they were so to me, they were so cool looking at the pictures and everything. They were color that I would literally go through through these books. And one of the things that I would do is like, Oh, I'm Dominican and I would learn about Dominican history, culture, all that stuff through this resource.
00;13;45;19 - 00;14;20;14
Rances
And like for me, I always the number one is like, I look the way I look, right? And my features were have always been kind of a point of attention or my lips take, oh, giant lives, oh, my hair so and so forth. So it's like it's not something that I could deny in that sense. But I always had these experiences when I would go to D.R., where I would experience racism over there, because there would be this high racism towards Haitians right.
00;14;20;14 - 00;14;43;20
Rances
And that identifying and experiencing that. My aunt, who's my aunt. Right. And by the way, that's another aspect of my family from my mother's side, they all looked Asian. So my aunt, who looks like an Asian lady screaming out about these Haitians and so on, so very experienced those racism is like I look like more like them than I do like you like.
00;14;44;01 - 00;14;46;06
Rances
So what does this mean about like how you feel about.
00;14;46;06 - 00;14;50;02
Jason
You're the good one. What the fuck does that mean?
00;14;50;02 - 00;14;58;19
Rances
And then also that like the rejection of like Dominicans or Dominicans is always like, oh no, we're not black, we're not black. And it's like, Yeah, yes we.
00;14;58;19 - 00;14;59;02
Moises
Are.
00;14;59;02 - 00;15;00;05
Rances
Bro.
00;15;00;05 - 00;15;25;17
Rances
Like that's where the history comes from. So like what I was saying about the encyclopedia is like learning about like, oh, how, how did we get to be who we are? And it's like, oh, African slaves brought to the American Republic. So as a combination of African slaves, Europeans and natives, right? That were to me when I was little, I would say I'm just a mutt, like I'm a mama and a bit of everything.
00;15;25;17 - 00;15;54;16
Rances
And then in my family, like I said, we have Chinese. So it's like I'm a hardcore mutt, so I feel like I belong everywhere in that sense. I don't belong everywhere from the way I look right? But I belong everywhere from everywhere, from my heritage. So learning that at an early age, learning kind of that history and so on and so forth and and like my mom also had, I would ask my mom about our lineage, right?
00;15;54;25 - 00;16;20;28
Rances
My mom could had a great grandmother who came from Spain and then from her father's side, it was like very indigenous. Like my great grandfather was was a shaman, you know, in DR. And they would call him to come in and figure out how to get the farmland to grow and everything. And he would do these rituals which were when you trace them back, by the way, they're all scientifically based.
00;16;20;28 - 00;16;47;25
Rances
So he'll take this tree, burned this tree and whatever over the field. And really what it would do, it would adjust the nature of of the ground as being over farmed. So it's like that's that's like the history. So me learning this at a young age really added to that whole oneness thing that I have of like, I'm a citizen of the world and super, you know, super.
00;16;47;25 - 00;17;09;06
Rances
What's it called? woo woo Yeah, but it's from an identity of that, of like. Yeah, I'm a little bit of that, I'm a little bit of that and a little bit of that. And so therefore I can't deny any of it, you know. So I think that's super interesting because like my identity was based off of that. I'm not like everyone else.
00;17;09;06 - 00;17;22;14
Rances
I'm not just white, I'm not just black, I'm not just Hispanic, whatever. I'm a little bit of all of it. So I just need to find how I identify, Oh, this part of me identifies here and this part identifies there. Know, I.
00;17;22;14 - 00;17;40;26
Jason
Think we forget that we're all multifaceted human beings and we're not just one thing, even though that's we latch on to it for like identity, purpose and like that kind of like herd mentality. Sometimes you just don't want to feel alone, especially when you're a kid. You want to feel like you belong to a group in that there's somebody who understands you kind of thing.
00;17;41;13 - 00;18;02;04
Jason
So it takes a lot of time to. It's cool that you learn that at a young age because not many people do. I think more people need to to dive a little bit deeper into into who they are and to where they come from. Because you'll realize that you may have a lot more than just one thing, what you think you are.
00;18;02;06 - 00;18;08;13
Jason
Yeah. And I think if you really open your eyes up too to personal growth.
00;18;08;20 - 00;18;10;07
Rances
But on that note, I feel like.
00;18;10;23 - 00;18;11;02
Rances
Yeah.
00;18;11;23 - 00;18;52;15
Rances
That is identified in all of our stories, right? There's all different experiences and perspectives and, and like Moises is white passing, right? You're colored, you have tattoos and you have this like white kid, white kid persona. Yeah. Idea of your identity because it's how you grew up, right. And then with me, the idea, right. So is like it doesn't matter, like the, the identity that that you're, you're having trouble with or you're, you're recognizing yourself as.
00;18;53;05 - 00;19;00;15
Rances
The fact of the matter is that we're all in this human experience and we're all, in that sense, going uphill in one way or another.
00;19;01;08 - 00;19;31;07
Moises
I think I think also to it being aware of how your perception of self determines your behavior and performance in certain arenas. Because like as I'm hearing everybody's story, like, yeah, I know Jay, like he has like white culture in there, but like recently I watched Jay, like, I feel like you can tell a lot by their social media and what they like to post because it's like, here's an expression of myself, like one side that I want you to know about me.
00;19;31;07 - 00;19;35;28
Moises
And Jay has been learning about, like Puerto Rican culture and African American African.
00;19;35;28 - 00;19;39;26
Jason
And yeah, I've always known about it, didn't talk about it because like, well, fuck, am I going to talk about it?
00;19;40;03 - 00;19;55;22
Moises
But that's the thing, the perception that's given off. Yeah, right. So like when I tell my story of being in a room with like African-Americans is like there's part of me that wants to express that. I do have that part of me. Like I grew up playing basketball, acting.
00;19;55;22 - 00;19;56;22
Jason
Down like I.
00;19;56;29 - 00;20;12;12
Moises
Think I'm down right. But then I walk into a room of Latinos and I'm like, I know how to dance better than all of you motherfuckers, right? So, you know, and then I walk into a white room and I'm like, I can speak just as well as you can, and I can code switch and I can do all of these different things.
00;20;13;10 - 00;20;18;17
Moises
So it's just like being aware that the tribalism does exist.
00;20;19;20 - 00;20;21;01
Jason
And it's human nature.
00;20;21;01 - 00;20;43;02
Moises
It is human nature. It does exist within is like how do you find a way to adapt to that environment and then open the perspectives of the individuals in that group? Yeah, because that's what I try to find myself doing. Yeah. Okay. Once of like I've kind of connected with a certain group of people, I'm like, okay, how do I open this up to everybody else?
00;20;43;02 - 00;20;48;12
Jason
Yeah, right. Yeah. The older I get, the more I'm like, Oh, I'm more like a diplomat. Yeah. You know.
00;20;48;29 - 00;20;49;14
Moises
It's a good Analogy.
00;20;49;14 - 00;21;11;07
Jason
I'm like, I have friends, you know, I, I love rock music, I love anime, I love skateboarding, I love all these other things that it it goes to a branch of different kinds of people. And I'm still able to be myself, but I have all these different interests that would be deemed, Oh, you're Spanish kid. Oh, you come from so-and-so kind of thing.
00;21;11;21 - 00;21;33;17
Jason
And I think that's a beautiful thing. And I think more kids need to embrace that. That's why I like I love seeing, like, kids now. Like, I love seeing brown skateboard and I love seeing brown kids be into anime because, like, you guys have no idea how this is going to benefit you in your life kind of thing because you have all these, you don't see it as just, Oh, this is a white kid thing, oh, this is an Asian kid thing.
00;21;33;17 - 00;21;36;21
Jason
Oh, this is so and so thing. It's just what you like.
00;21;36;24 - 00;21;38;28
Moises
Well, Gen-Z is like a lot more like it.
00;21;39;05 - 00;22;00;14
Jason
And that's one thing I love about the newer generations and stuff like that, that they might complain and bitch. I'm like, Shut up because that's a boomer me. But I love the fact that they're a lot more. There's like we like what we like. You know, I listened to this comedian the other day who is like, you know, boomers are always like, you can be with, you know, our parents or like you could be whatever you want.
00;22;00;14 - 00;22;02;25
Jason
It was like, I'll be a lady. And they're like, whoa.
00;22;03;22 - 00;22;05;02
Rances
He's like, I call your bluff.
00;22;05;03 - 00;22;05;11
Jason
Yeah.
00;22;05;17 - 00;22;23;14
Jason
He's like, Well, I call your bluff. How about that? You know, he's I'll get these size C’s and be real sassy motherfuckers. How about that? You know, and it's just it's just I love that about the younger generation. Do I think they're a little bit soft in their emotions? How they feel like everything needs to be validated?
00;22;23;14 - 00;22;25;00
Moises
Boomer said the same shit about us.
00;22;25;01 - 00;22;34;11
Jason
No, no, it's just good. It's just. It's just the age. You know, we were going to think that, you know, it's easy music is a lot shorter than our generation of music and stuff like that. It's just how it goes.
00;22;34;27 - 00;22;36;11
Jason
But no But its all
00;22;36;21 - 00;22;39;22
Rances
Gen X says that about us and it just goes round and round
00;22;40;09 - 00;22;54;23
Jason
It's, it's always going to happen kind of thing. Um, but I will say the one thing that, that always, it's, I think we all are entitled to our emotions and we're all entitled to feel a certain way. But that doesn't.
00;22;55;06 - 00;22;56;00
Moises
Mean that it's true.
00;22;56;12 - 00;23;13;05
Jason
Yes. And it doesn't mean that it's it's it's goes general across the board kind of thing. You know, if I if I say a joke in a defense, you for a certain anything that went on in your life, it's not a reflection of me. It's reflection of the experience that you went to. Why, if any, you're entitled to be offended by it.
00;23;14;07 - 00;23;29;04
Jason
But at the same time, it's not my fault that you're offended by it, you know, and I think with with this generation, they have a hard time deciphering the two just people in general, because it's not just that generation. It's just, I think people in general with social media and all that stuff, it's a.
00;23;29;04 - 00;23;45;08
Rances
Rude, like personal development thing is like recognizing that this is a trigger within yourself and it's an opportunity for you for your growth to happen as opposed to that, the environment needs to change so that you don't have this trigger. Yeah, you know, agitated.
00;23;45;12 - 00;23;47;01
Jason
Because life is hard.
00;23;47;01 - 00;23;47;13
Rances
Yeah.
00;23;48;03 - 00;24;19;17
Rances
So like, you know, the key concept today is like personal development, I think recognizing that our, our personal limitations of our identities and everything that we put into what our identity is and when something challenges our identity, we get triggered. We can look at those as opportunities for growth and looking for looking at our lives in that manner, looking for for the opportunities of growth.
00;24;19;22 - 00;24;32;07
Rances
When I get triggered, this is our opportunity for growth like that is how you bring yourself up to break outside of the limitations that have been placed on you and you have placed on yourself.
00;24;33;01 - 00;24;50;12
Jason
No, I think that's really true. And I'll just say one last thing you ever notice, though, like, yeah, we go back and we take a shower that you think about like a pass arguing, like, why should I set this? And I should set that aside. I think we also need to look back at times where we were a little bit rough, like, Ooh, I shouldn't have said that.
00;24;50;12 - 00;25;13;21
Jason
I should have handled it this way. Like you have to reflect on both things and I think we can't just focus on how can we be more assertive. It's like you also, you got to learn how to pull back sometimes too, and to be able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. And that only comes with time and experience and really looking into yourself kind of thing, which I learned a lot from you guys, which I don't like to admit.
00;25;14;18 - 00;25;16;17
Jason
00;25;18;02 - 00;25;24;28
Moises
Wait So how did you learn those things? And we didn't really have these kind of like we had some conversations. But I feel like when it comes to Jay, it was more like.
00;25;25;18 - 00;25;43;26
Jason
It's watching you guys. Yeah, it's more so. It's just like watching you guys and like, watching, like, how you guys developed more so with you because you're here, you're my brother and watching, you know, the the young kid that I grew up with and become the man that you are now. And it's like there's certain times I'm like, Oh, Mo has attitude.
00;25;44;06 - 00;26;02;23
Jason
I can see the little kid in him still, you know what I mean? But then there's other times, like, I'm so proud of this fucking guy because he's so fucking brave, and he's. He's the complete opposite of what he was scared of as. As a kid. And that makes me so fucking happy sometimes. So I take like how you said, like how you observe Rances and Paola
00;26;02;23 - 00;26;21;21
Jason
Sometimes I observe you guys and when I see that kind of stuff, it makes me think about like, how do how do I incorporate that into my life and how do I make the changes that I need to make the change? Because as a only child, I could sometimes it's real easy to only think about how I feel.
00;26;21;21 - 00;26;54;08
Jason
And it doesn't matter how anybody else feels because how I feel is law and I'm just going to go about how I do things because that's just what it is. And being in a long term relationship, now that it don't work like that, it doesn't work like that at all. And thanks to you guys and and it's really helped me to check myself sometimes, especially with like and it sounds silly because it wasn't even emotional stuff, but it's like with the workouts and stuff like that, the ones that like you use, like you work out so failure and you're going to fail and you have to be okay with failing.
00;26;54;26 - 00;27;06;26
Jason
That really changed my perspective on on certain things just like it's okay to fuck up, you're going to fuck up. That's life, you fuck up now how do you go about it and now as you guys.
00;27;07;01 - 00;27;09;03
Moises
So yeah, I actually remember one of those workout.
00;27;09;03 - 00;27;15;05
Jason
I had a fight, I had a fucking temper tantrum. Yeah, he, I, I think about that. I think about that all the time.
00;27;15;14 - 00;27;16;13
Rances
Tell the story. Yeah.
00;27;18;01 - 00;27;23;01
Jason
I don't remember, like, what exactly you were doing. I just know it was one like, it was like it was th skull crusher, I think.
00;27;23;02 - 00;27;43;10
Moises
No, it was the one of the Captain America conditioning workouts, which is the swing, the thrusters, uh, thrusters, burpees, high knees. Yeah, and it's AMRAP So how many sets can you do in whatever? I think it was, like, 8 minutes. Yeah, or something.
00;27;43;10 - 00;28;06;13
Jason
Like that. And yeah, I just remember just going into it, not wanting to fucking do it, having a terrible fucking day, just not being in the mood to do it and not be in the mood to feel and not be in the mood for somebody like you got to do it kind of thing. So it was one of those things that I remember just being like, Fuck if it happened, just be and catching an attitude with you guys, which I never really do when it comes to like working out and stuff like that.
00;28;06;24 - 00;28;22;14
Jason
And I saw the little kid like looking back on it, I see I saw a little kid even I saw the defensive little kid that growing up, which we'll talk about later, was something that was kind of passed down to me, was just like, this is like you fucking do it in this is how it is kind of thing.
00;28;22;14 - 00;28;42;21
Jason
And it's like and how you respond to that is by barking back, you stand your ground. Nobody's crossing this line. I don't care what you say right? Even though I'm wrong. And, um, you know, it was just one of those, like, if you bark loud enough to leave you alone, and with you guys, that doesn't work. You're like, okay, you're upset, keep going.
00;28;43;28 - 00;28;53;01
Jason
And it taught me a real valuable lesson later on. I didn't see it so much there, but like, that was what, how many years ago now?
00;28;53;14 - 00;28;54;22
Moises
Uh, would take.
00;28;55;03 - 00;28;55;10
Rances
Two.
00;28;55;10 - 00;28;55;23
Jason
Or three.
00;28;56;10 - 00;28;57;10
Moises
Like about three years.
00;28;57;10 - 00;29;20;09
Jason
About three years ago. It's still sex, if I think about that all the time and I think about it a lot when I'm boxing and stuff like that, I'm super fucking tired and like, I could just give up, but giving up means I'm just going to get punched a lot and like, it doesn't matter what you do right now, but if you give up, you're going to you're going to take a bigger beating than if you just keep moving and just keep moving.
00;29;20;24 - 00;29;22;24
Jason
And I learned that from you guys.
00;29;22;24 - 00;29;44;17
Moises
I think part of that was like Jay, I we're doing the workout together and I was used to that workout. Yeah. So I was in pretty good shape at that time. Yeah, that was prior to COVID. Yeah. So we were doing it and I was going hard and Jay was like trying to keep up in the beginning phase.
00;29;44;28 - 00;29;58;12
Moises
And then you ended up throwing up? Yeah. You went to the bathroom and threw up and then that's when you got upset. And then you do it like do like a fight or tantrum, like one of those sarcastic tantrums.
00;29;58;12 - 00;29;59;29
Jason
Yeah. My tantrums aren't like.
00;30;01;00 - 00;30;01;22
Rances
I become.
00;30;01;22 - 00;30;02;19
Jason
A moody teenager.
00;30;02;20 - 00;30;17;03
Moises
You become a moody, sarcastic teenager. Yeah. And that's that's what really kind of triggered and I remember that because I was like, damn, you know, I was like, the first time I really saw you. I mean, I saw you break a couple of times. Yeah, I was younger, but, like, as an adult.
00;30;17;05 - 00;30;17;12
Rances
Was it this dey?
00;30;17;28 - 00;30;23;07
Moises
No, no, no, no, no. That was after Jay had gotten past it. Yeah.
00;30;23;22 - 00;30;24;29
Rances
At that it was around this time.
00;30;24;29 - 00;30;38;04
Moises
It was around that time. Yeah. And we were just flying and then, um, that was the first time I kind of saw you break as an adult. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting.
00;30;38;10 - 00;31;00;26
Jason
Yeah, yeah. You know, it is too. It's you saw me go through my real break when I was in my early twenties, and then after I was like, I'm never going to break ever again. I kind of pulled the Rances like, I'm never going to cry, but my heart's not made of steel.
00;31;00;26 - 00;31;02;24
Moises
So I made Rances feel uncomfortable the other day.
00;31;03;28 - 00;31;04;12
Rances
Yeah.
00;31;04;24 - 00;31;08;10
Moises
I mean, it felt real uncomfortable. Like he was about to laugh.
00;31;08;10 - 00;31;11;11
Rances
Oh, yeah. And I. That was like this.
00;31;12;19 - 00;31;13;14
Rances
I had a.
00;31;15;04 - 00;31;15;10
Moises
Go ahead
00;31;15;17 - 00;31;40;25
Rances
I mean, so were you in the in the podcast with Paola It was funny because the next day I was editing and I was like, Yo, Moises shared in our podcast how um, generally he needs the time and space to then reflect on how something is triggering. So if somebody pisses him off, he tends to like kind of shut down and then like a few days later, a week later, then he'll, he'll address it.
00;31;41;17 - 00;32;08;13
Rances
So this is the first time in any of our that I can remember any of our conversations where I was, I was speaking, he had just presented something and I was speaking about it. And he said, I'm getting very upset right now because you're dismissing everything that I just worked on and not acknowledging it and that that response of him, like recognizing that he was getting upset, addressing it and speaking to it, I was like.
00;32;09;10 - 00;32;11;00
Rances
Oh, okay.
00;32;12;00 - 00;32;44;19
Rances
And my face started going into that smile. I was like, Oh shit, well, don't get upset. And I start laughing. But it was that. It was because like, it was completely like I was not like completely hit blind spot. Like, yeah, I was not expecting it. I was like, Oh shit. And this is because I just want to say this generally in, in our interactions, I usually take on the load of recognizing his emotional level when he doesn't explain it to me.
00;32;45;04 - 00;32;59;16
Rances
So then because I'm doing that, I'm like, Oh, okay, like I'm pushing him too much. Let me back is not necessarily because he's saying no to me, but in this case he said it before I could even pick it up. And that was just like.
00;33;00;08 - 00;33;01;18
Rances
Think what if?
00;33;01;29 - 00;33;08;06
Moises
So the physiology. I've become really good on understanding my physiology behind anger.
00;33;08;16 - 00;33;08;25
Jason
Okay.
00;33;09;29 - 00;33;26;21
Moises
You ever see, like the movies where somebody gets angry and that, like, the whole thing started shaking? Yeah, like, and it kind of, like, glimpse in and out. It's almost like a glitch in a computer. That's what happens to me. And it happened that one time that I blew up on you when we were on Zoom. And I like, just like, lost my shit.
00;33;27;09 - 00;33;33;02
Jason
Like, through your notebook. I was like, it's not effective when you do not zoom, but it is effective. And it was very funny.
00;33;33;02 - 00;34;01;05
Moises
Yeah, I was just like, pissed. So I was getting close to that point again and I was like, Oh shit, here it is. Like I recognized it. And that's when I said I was like, I'm about to lose my shit. I'm going to say something before I actually do. And that's, that's really what it is. And I think I mean, going back to to Jay's point, I think you go back to that story a lot because it's the understanding of the emotional, the physiology that actually happens.
00;34;01;05 - 00;34;21;21
Moises
And I think that's what I've been really good at becoming aware of is like my own physiology in the moment that I'm speaking something. So like when I get nervous, I already know what my heart rate does. My skin does like all of those things to be able to then say, okay, how am I perceiving this? Why is it making me feel this way?
00;34;21;28 - 00;34;27;10
Moises
Do I say something? What do I do? So in that moment I felt that physiology and I was like, yeah, you're pissing me off bro.
00;34;27;10 - 00;34;28;13
Rances
Hmm.
00;34;29;03 - 00;34;32;01
Moises
So you're completely this dismissing everything that I've done.
00;34;33;18 - 00;34;56;16
Jason
I think it's also I mean, I could see why he smiles, too, because he's like he's expressing himself. So it's a beautiful thing. It's like, oh, forget it. Get mad right now, but don't get mad. But I appreciate you letting me know that I've missed you off kind of thing. No, I think that's fucking really cool. And it's something that I, I am still.
00;34;56;16 - 00;35;21;27
Jason
I mean, we were always working on it. It is something that I've been trying to consciously think about and it's like, don't be so reactionary. Just assert why you're why you're feeling the certain way that you are. But don't bark off of it kind of thing. And just like, listen, like how you say, like I, I want to strive more for being like, you're making me upset and I want to let you know why you're making me so just fucking immediately, just barking.
00;35;22;08 - 00;35;32;21
Jason
And then after it's like I did that because I was upset. Because you did this and did that and that's it make me feel like this? So it's like more of explaining yourself before going there.
00;35;33;13 - 00;35;40;05
Moises
But to get to that point, don't get too concerned. You have to you have to do the reaction you have to.
00;35;40;05 - 00;35;42;10
Jason
What do I have to get to ketosis?
00;35;42;20 - 00;35;42;28
Moises
No.
00;35;44;13 - 00;35;45;15
Moises
No, it's. To get to that.
00;35;45;15 - 00;36;09;26
Moises
Point you have to learn the reaction first. Yeah. It's not something that like I feel that you're able to just like, you know what, I need to respond better. It's more like, you know, I react like, for example, Rances’ story. Yeah, right. Of the butcher block. And then going back to that space and then understanding his emotions and then saying like, Oh, no, I have an opportunity to change my reaction.
00;36;10;14 - 00;36;14;11
Moises
The reaction had to happen first in order for him to learn the new response.
00;36;14;11 - 00;36;14;20
Jason
Yeah.
00;36;15;11 - 00;36;43;25
Rances
So I just had a coaching session this morning and that was kind of the topic of conversation that we were having in the, the sense of how do we become, how do we first become aware, right? In order to change anything, we first need to become aware of it, right? And in the session we were talking about like the opportunities to become aware and there's a judgment that comes in like I should be aware of this already.
00;36;44;04 - 00;36;55;10
Rances
All right. But recognizing that sometimes we're not we're just on autopilot. So setting up system is to help our awareness.
00;36;56;15 - 00;37;00;19
Jason
Real quick.
00;37;00;19 - 00;37;02;16
Moises
I feel like jay he's about to say something...
00;37;03;09 - 00;37;15;21
Jason
No, no, it's just going back to the to the Rances is a robot thing. When you start using certain terminology systems, it makes me giggle because he's talking, computer talking.
00;37;16;28 - 00;37;17;16
Moises
But there.
00;37;17;16 - 00;37;18;03
Moises
Is a.
00;37;18;03 - 00;37;19;00
Moises
Value to That.
00;37;19;00 - 00;37;28;20
Jason
It makes so much sense. It's just that going back, I'm like, He's being vulnerable than it makes me giggle. I has to work on.
00;37;28;20 - 00;37;53;02
Moises
There is something that does trigger me about the way that you do speak about it. Like, I understand that it's coming from the thing and it's like, No, you put these protocols in place very Huberman like you put these protocols in place a.k.a systems to be able to build this tool. And he's right like it is that it just sounds so disconnected and.
00;37;53;02 - 00;37;53;15
Jason
Cold.
00;37;53;15 - 00;37;56;18
Moises
And cold that it almost makes it seem like.
00;37;57;06 - 00;37;58;06
Jason
Rances is a robot.
00;37;58;06 - 00;37;58;21
Moises
Rances is.
00;37;58;21 - 00;38;03;04
Moises
A robot.
00;38;03;04 - 00;38;27;08
Rances
I mean, I get it. And that and and I think that the problem of why is it so hard for for many people to do is because it's so hard to disconnect from that experience. Yeah. So like what I do is I disconnect from the experience and examine it on that robotic format, which then allows me to really identify, break it down.
00;38;28;02 - 00;38;51;26
Rances
But if you're so sucked into it like this is my experience, these are my emotions and all of this is truth and real. Then I can see how it can be very hard for you to create distance in space in order to examine yourself in that manner. And so, like, I understand the disconnect. I understand the challenge when I'm speaking and it's something that's been brought up in the past.
00;38;51;26 - 00;38;52;26
Rances
But I think that is the.
00;38;52;26 - 00;38;53;12
Jason
Root.
00;38;53;29 - 00;39;17;02
Rances
Challenge and root problem of of understanding how to do it. The how to do it is all about creating that space. So I went through this emotional experience, okay, that was you inside the ship. Now you're going to be on land looking at the ship from a distance and you examine it. That is how you change, because now you examine it from a distance.
00;39;17;07 - 00;39;48;22
Rances
You debrief and you go back on the ship, go through the same route, and now you have a plan on how to handle the situation. But it requires that distance from the ship. It requires that space to think of yourself as something that you can influence. And if you think of yourself as something that's just reactionary, reactive to whatever's happening to you, then you're powerless because there's nothing that you can put in place to train yourself to behave.
00;39;48;22 - 00;40;20;23
Rances
This way. So I get it. And it sounds like a you problem. It's so anyways, what I was saying about my, my client is the idea of recognizing that those points of awareness can come from any thing around you. So how do you, how do you set up systems in place to become aware is like maybe it's someone close to you that says, Hey, you're doing that thing and you're not aware because you're in it.
00;40;21;12 - 00;40;41;07
Rances
And they by them saying that and you drilling in your head that they're going to tell me this, I'm not going to respond. You train yourself to not respond and reactionary way, but it's like, oh, thank you, I'm doing that thing now. You start to become aware and that space gets smaller and smaller and smaller until you start recognizing.
00;40;41;20 - 00;41;00;19
Rances
I'm about to have that reaction. And then that's where you get to the point where you don't after the fact, apologize and have to say yeah, but is like in the moment that is coming up is like Moises I'm getting very upset right now and this is why this is like, oh shit. Like, that's clear.
00;41;01;02 - 00;41;11;00
Moises
I find it easier to do that when I am consistently working out meaning consistently doing something very uncomfortable.
00;41;12;10 - 00;41;23;10
Jason
I agree with that because ever since I started picking it like boxing insight being like, okay, I'm going to do this five, you know, six days a week. It's changed my outlook on things completely.
00;41;23;16 - 00;41;44;13
Moises
Yeah, you're you're baseline for uncomfortable emotions that goes up for those things. And I think that's very important. So when sometimes I'm talking to clients that I know do not have any of that experience for me to say, hey, put this protocol in place or put the system in places like it's a waste of time. Like you need to get your ass kicked.
00;41;44;28 - 00;42;06;11
Moises
So one of the things that my girl and I were talking about, because we were talking about this morning and last night holding the line in our relationship, like who's holding the line for making sure that we stick to our habits and commit to what we say we're going to do? And I was like, we need to do uncomfortable things in certain categories of our lives.
00;42;07;06 - 00;42;28;20
Moises
So it's like physically like we should write down starting the day. How are we going to get physically uncomfortable mentally or emotionally? How do we get physically? How do we get uncomfortable in that in that situation nutritionally? How do you get uncomfortable in that situation? Go ahead. Make your jokes.
00;42;28;20 - 00;42;30;13
Jason
It was a pagan joke. Never mind.
00;42;32;28 - 00;42;37;11
Moises
Dismantled
00;42;38;13 - 00;42;39;19
Jason
Kindve like butt stuff...
00;42;39;19 - 00;42;39;28
Jason
That.
00;42;41;02 - 00;42;42;10
Jason
Makes everybody uncomfortable.
00;42;44;03 - 00;43;01;14
Moises
So we're going to close out this episode now. So let's do this. I want to do something a little bit different when it comes to personal development, what do you think is the most important thing for each of you? One thing in one sentence.
00;43;01;14 - 00;43;03;13
Jason
You go first. Let that compute.
00;43;06;16 - 00;43;08;23
Rances
Once one thing but one sentence, one.
00;43;08;23 - 00;43;15;06
Moises
Thing in one sentence. Okay, somebody can just literally take and if they want to start applying, they could do it right now.
00;43;15;06 - 00;43;25;14
Rances
Okay. To me it would be awareness of what triggers you and using that awareness to create action pla.l;
00;43;25;14 - 00;43;25;22
Moises
Hmm.
00;43;26;11 - 00;43;45;14
Jason
That's good. I'm going to say accountability. I think we as a as a human race, we all need to be a little bit more accountable for our reactions in our actions and our feelings. And you need to to notice that it's not always somebody else's fault. Sometimes it lives within you and you need to. And that ties into awareness.
00;43;46;02 - 00;43;49;08
Jason
And that's more than one sentence. Well, I don't care, because I run my own rules.
00;43;50;14 - 00;43;51;02
Rances
How about, you Mo?
00;43;51;17 - 00;44;04;05
Moises
I think for me is understanding your emotions a.k.a physiology. And the only way to do that is to consciously pick discomfort every single day.
00;44;04;09 - 00;44;23;04
Jason
Guys, thank you so much for watching. Mindset U once again I said we always say like subscribe follow us on on YouTube at VidaProject follow us on Spotify at Mindset U just follow us everywhere, follow us in the streets, walk down the street with me, let me know how you feel.
00;44;23;04 - 00;44;26;11
Rances
Anywhere you listen to podcasts, you can find us in the Mindset U.
00;44;26;11 - 00;44;31;20
Jason
Yeah and if you YouTube it's VidaProject it's it's a little different we're a little backward super backward group All right.
00;44;31;25 - 00;44;35;23
Moises
Worst case scenario, if you don't know this VidaProject.com you can find everything there.
00;44;35;28 - 00;44;47;15
Jason
And just ask one of us. It's great. It's fine. Don’t worry about it. I got to go pee. Love you guys.